Staying Competitive in 2018: Key Recruiting Benchmarks to Measure

Recruiting is only getting tougher. Stay ahead of the game by optimizing your recruiting funnel, and learning how you stack up against the rest of the industry.

Join Chris Forman, CEO & Founder of Appcast, and Matt Singer, VP of Marketing at Jobvite, on Wednesday, May 2 as they discuss and reveal the latest full-funnel recruiting benchmarks, including:

  • Year over year (YoY) changes in the landscape and evolutions in the industry
  • Average cost-per-click job ad bid and click-to-apply rate by industry
  • Source of applicants and hires (internal hires vs. referrals)

Webinar Transcript:

Claire: Hello everyone and welcome to today's webinar my name is Claire Alloway I'm a part of the marketing team, so for that I am going to jump into the overall agenda and then I'll pass it over to Chris to start us off. So as you can see here we are finishing up the welcome and intro right now and then we'll go into the top of the funnel benchmark data, the preapply section of the funnel, and then into the bottom of the funnel benchmark, the post apply, and finally we'll give you some key takeaways to bring back to your day-to-day along with that Q & A that I mentioned earlier. So I'm going to pass it off to Chris to give you a little intro about himself.

Chris: Thanks so much Claire good afternoon everybody, getting a little echo there. It is great to see so many names as though not faces you know kind of old friend during the audience here so it's lovely to talk to you all again. If I haven't mentioned before my name is Chris Forman I'm the founder and CEO of Appcast.  But what I've done is, I've spent the last 20 years of my career working with really awesome teams to build and grow recruiting technology companies. You know, started about 20 years ago a company called AIRS that you know built the first generation recruitment CRM platform in the US and also there's no grow a lot of its recruitment training and then to run technology. We're the largest RPOs  in the US and then found and start you know to Rectech needs directly start wire and now Appcast.

I like to give a lot of talks you got a tremendous passion for talent acquisition for a whole variety of reasons and you know Matt and I was trying to count up I think this is the fifth or sixth talk that we've given together and so it's always a joy doing these. Also a lot of the stuff that I talked about kind of comes from some quiet time that I have when I'm working on our family farm. Angela and I  we've got four kids we live in upstate New Hampshire and we live in a little dairy farm. So I've got cows as well as pigs and sheeps and chickens. Candidly I often think about what I'm going to be saying in these meetings as I'm shoveling manure in the barn and my beautiful bride sometimes says that there's a correlation between what I'm shoveling and what I'm saying. So hopefully that isn't the case today. With that my partner-in-crime Matt.

Matt:  Alright thank you Chris.  Yeah it's great to be working with you again on this. Yeah we've been doing this for a number of years and much like Chris I've spent my career in HR and recruiting on the vendor side. I'm a big fan of the data so we’re kind of geeks in arms Chris and I. And so I think this is a really relevant topic and part of the reason we continue to do it together each year is I'm a big believer in being grounded in the data. I think that what has led to the emergence of the CMO in my line of business as a marketer and what's also led to the CHRO has been that emergence of data in both of our worlds. So I think there's a lot of best practices that we can share between marketers and recruiters and we'll be going over a lot of that in today's call. Yeah I'm jealous I'm not fortunate enough to live on a farm.  I'm out here on the west coast in the concrete jungle of Silicon Valley. I do try to get out to the coast and spend as much time in the water as I can and enjoy doing that with my kids so that's kind of how I spend my personal time.

But again excited to take you guys through the benchmarks and to share some of the year-over-year changes that we're seeing. Now that we have enough history with this report to start to spot some trends and hopefully highlighting those trends will lead to some actionable insights that those of you on today's webinar can put into practice in your everyday, everyday lives. So yeah let's jump into it. So I think part of what we wanted to do was just to quickly set the stage of what's happening in today's labor market and this isn't anything new for most of you since you're steeped in the recruiting world and probably fighting that fight to find and hire the top talent. But what we really have is kind of a perfect storm in the labor market right now as far as the the hiring side of the equation. So you know unemployment is that historic lows we've been bouncing around between the high 3s and the low 4s and then you know within the nuance of that is is the sort of two-tiered labor market that we have here in the US. And, so we have sort of a white collar and a blue-collar labor market and the white collar is where most of you are struggling to to hire. I believe unemployment for kind of hourly and and non-technical positions is hovering more at sort of 6 to 8 percent and the skilled labor market is really below 3% which effectively is zero unemployment it's just people changing jobs.

So if you're hiring for those skilled positions those STEM jobs I'm sure you are feeling the pain of this unemployment rate. You know some of the things that are driving the talent war that we're seeing out there is not just the amount of you know the low level of unemployment but also the kind of brain drain and education issues that we're seeing in the United States. So the US has continued to sort of slip in the world spectrum of top institutions and education particularly on the stem side. We have a huge gap between the degrees being issued and the amount of positions that are available in rolls like computer science, statistics, app development, engineering  and so on. So you know the the education problem further compounds the issue. Another piece is that classic boomers leaving the workforce component that we've been hearing about for a number of years and we're still in the midst of that. So you know with this huge contingent of labor leaving and being replaced by the new you know Millennials and Gen Z's brings with it a new demographic and new behaviors among those workers. And so there's a lot of unique things about the new labor market but one of the big ones with Millennials is you know their ability to do research and evaluate companies before they ever engage with them and we'll spend a lot of time talking about that.

And so really what that means that it's the same thing we're seeing in marketing which is prospective buyers or in your case prospective hires have done a ton of research upfront before they ever engage with you guys as HR and recruiters. And so that leads to you know two possible outcomes if you're being transparent and providing a good insight into your employer brand it can be a positive thing it can help folks to move through the funnel faster, have a better understanding of what they can expect when they do join the company, and remove some of those barriers that you might have found when when you had to educate them about the brand during the hiring process. That has often happened ahead of time in the current kind of state of the labor market. So some of the negative outcomes though can be you know in the actual apply process itself right so the way that your apply process is set up the number of questions you're asking, whether or not it's a mobile experience, all these things significantly impact your conversion rates from those viewing the positions to actually complete it applies.

Appcast has some really compelling research around this stuff and I would encourage you to visit their website and take a look at some of the reports that highlight the number of questions that are you know key in terms of you hit diminishing returns I believe that something like 15 questions so you need to be really thoughtful about that as well as the job descriptions that you're writing so we'll talk about that. So you can see here from the the survey data that we have you know over half of these job seekers are abandoning the apply process if it's too complicated and then even worse they go out on social media  and they share those negative experiences with with a broader social and also their personal networks and then almost 90% of those folks have reported that they won't consider your company again after a bad hiring experience. So this last one is a key example where we're seeing marketing and recruiting continue to converge in terms of the employer brand and the corporate brand and that you know these guys not only are not going to apply at your company but they're also not going to purchase your products and services. So marketers really need to be collaborating and working with recruiters to have a unified experience not just with the corporate brand but also with the employer brand. So because you really need to provide that white-glove experience it really highlights the need to be selective about those folks that you're getting to apply and the job boards are a huge source of those applies and so I think Chris was going to take us through some of the stuff that that Appcast has found on that side of things.

Chris: Yeah thanks Matt.

Matt: So a little bit of background the Appcast business we build software that helps recruiters hiring organizations and marketers to manage their pay for performance job ad advertising more effectively. So our software here is by you know the gig providers 85% of the largest you know recruitment advertising agencies half the major job boards 500 major companies to help basically optimize and improve and optimize their cost per click ad buying from all the major providers Blackboard that  Recruiter you know monster career builder Google anyone. So the data that we're about to share and you've shared over the years with Matt and our and our friends a Jobvite basically look at what our software tracks across the entire ecosystem around the performance of job ads. And to give you a sense of of the scale here you know last year 1.4  billion job ad clicks were bought and optimized by our software globally. So this isn't a small data set this is a big data set.

In previous conversations that Matt and I have had we've shared lots of really interesting data like there was one Matt and I gave where the part that we brought to the table with an analysis of the length of your online application and the impact that that has on your recruiting cost and you know Matt you know mentioned it the longer the apply process the fewer the people get through it and if you're you know buying recruitment advertising on a cost per click basis is or even on a proposing basis if you have more people abandon your online application process your overall recruiting cost go up. And that was right you know there's a kind of a magic break point it's an application that takes five minutes or less which is that 15 questions. A 5-minute application saves you at 385 percent in your in your candidate sourcing cost compared to the standard online application which takes about 15 minutes. Another time we also look somatically on at something that was inline with what Matt was saying in terms of people's you know brand awareness of your employment brand so we looked at how the Glassdoor rating of a company impacted the apply rates from from advertised jobs . And not surprisingly we found a correlation between you know the quick to apply rate which is how many clicks does it take to you know what percentage of clicks actually turn into an apply within 48 hours. That the better your Glassdoor rating the more efficient your recruitment advertising is.

So this time around the researchers at Appcast have found something really interesting and this again kind of found obvious I you know like I'm just you know what about say is you know fairly common sense but nobody's been able to measure before. So just like it's common sense is the longer your online application you know the fewer people who actually get through at common sense but nobody was ever able to measure that a five-minute application saves you 385%  of your sourcing cost compared to a 15-month application. And you know just like you know having a higher Glassdoor rating means that your recruitment advertising might be a little bit more effective. Nobody was able to say that the difference between a 4 and a 3.5 is that 65% in terms of conversions on your job ad. Well now what the data team at Appcast is founded that there's a positive correlation between higher apply rates and high unemployment or said conversely lower apply rate and lower points. So what we have here is is a bit of a headache graph but this is a scatter graph that looks at the unemployment rate and the apply rate for all 50 states but it's not all 50 because it’s too much data. But what you're seeing here is on the vertical axis the unemployment rate which is what gets reported you know in the news all the time.

And you know the unemployment rate for all you know kind of data geeks out there is not really the percentage of people that are unemployed in a state is the percentage of people that are employed they're actually looking for work so this is a kind of a measure of unemployment rate amongst active job seekers. And then the click to apply rate or the apply rate is a function of what percentage of clicks from a job ad on an aggregator or a job site convert to an apply within 48 hours and what you're going to see here if you blur your eyes a little bit is that there is a distinct in what the economists would say a material correlation between a low unemployment rate and a lower quick to apply rate and you know what that means is it's not that job seekers are looking at fewer jobs in fact if you take a look at the views per job across you know all states. They're relatively you know static per job seeker what you're seeing is you're seeing more selectivity in places where job seekers have more choice because they are in more demand they will look at more ads but they will apply to fewer of them compared to you know job seekers in states where they are in less demand. Now the take home for this is again and there's going to be a really nice report that you guys are all going to get a copy of it that will have some of this raw data for you. Is it that if you are you know with a recruiting across multiple states you may actually find that in different locale with different unemployment rates you will change your recruitment advertising strategy.

You will spend more and more competitive areas you'll spend less and less competitive areas in able to ensure that you're getting enough applications across all of your requisitions and as Matt pointed out you may even find a deviation between you know kind of types of positions unemployment rate within function within geography so really interesting stuff. And what's also happening which is not surprising is that if you look at the bids that the employers and you know other marketers by job advertising and offer click pages they're also going up. So lower unemployment rate actually mean people are competing and spending higher amounts on their job app. And so again if you take a look at you know this state you know this particular graph here what you're seeing is you're seeing the average cost-per-click and if you take a look in terms of where you know things are higher you're seeing it in manufacturing areas are seeing in areas of high tech demands you're seeing it you know in oil and logistics. So really kind of interesting correlations between you know those two data parts.

You also see here that just generally there's a correlation between higher CPC's and function so transportation is by far away truck drivers the most competitive you know talent in labor market in the United States right now all very closely by health care. The rest of this stuff you know quite candidly is probably less material on a on a aggregate national basis I mean it's somewhat interesting to take a look at how these things play out. But the key thing here if you blur your eyes is really the significant built-in CPC that you see in the two hottest high demand areas transportation health care compare rest go. All right now this is something that we talk about all the time and in each one of our presentations and so even though you know this is something that you know is less to do with broad demographics it is really important for everybody to see. So in this graph what you're seeing here is you're seeing quick to apply rate by device. Okay so you've got mobile devices that are you know again things are getting better on the mobile side in 2016 you know it's just a little over 4% 2017 it's closer to 5 so desktop is seeing a little bit of a reverse of that trend and I can actually explain why there is kind of interesting and then they overall click to apply rate is roughly the same on a blended basis.

But the reason why we always put this slide in and talk about mobile is is that if you look at the percentage of traffic that comes from job sites. Job sites may have a bad name you know aggregators and job boards you know the conventional wisdom that you don't want to buy you know kind of active candidate the bottom line is is that a massive amount of the people to get hired end up coming through one of these active channels. Quite candidly another piece of data that were looking at is how some ATS coding clearly not a Jobvite cuz they always rock. You know categorizes the applies that are credited to the career side rather than job sites and if you have really good tracking they're going to find a massive percentage of hires that are attributed to career site engagement you know within a seven day or a thirty day we're back or actually driven you know through some type of job advertised. But on the job site you're starting to get to you know sixty to seventy percent of traffic is mobile and so what you're seeing here is the difference between a mobile apply and a desktop apply is massive almost 2x and you know if in fact the majority of the traffic that you're buying when you spend your recruitment marketing dollars is in fact on mobile that means that you're spending a lot of money that is not converting into a lot. And so you know you just always want to come and call that out you know and if you and your organization are thinking about ways to improve your candidate sourcing outcome one of the best way to actually do that is to invest in upgrading and improving your application flow and your mobile device flow.

And you know you guys are you know Jobvite customers and data suggests they've got one of the best you know mobile experiences in the market and you know so as you think about you know 2018 and 2019 besides hopefully you know wanting to learn about  technology and how you use data like this to optimize your recruitment advertising expense. Hopefully you take a look at how you might be able to invest you know some of your budget improving your budget mobile apply flow because you know imagine if in fact you had a mobile crystal apply rate that was approaching that a desktop you could buy significantly less recruit and advertising and have the same number of applicants flowing into your palm. So anyway that you know a couple key points here is you know to reinforce what Matt said it's competitive out there it's getting more competitive and as it becomes more competitive your recruitment advertising becomes less effective meaning more people look at your ads the fewer of them apply and the prices that you pay for normal cost. So you can call me mr. happy today I'm just full of good news but hopefully Matt will be good provide some more interesting and happy news for you.

Matt: Yeah thank you Chris that's great stuff very interesting. I think sadly you know what we're seeing at the bottom of the funnel is very similar it all sort of cascades from that market data we shared at the beginning about the tight labor market and you know it's simply getting harder in a market like this to to find good people and you know attract them and build that talent pipeline. So what we wanted to do is just kind of dig into some of the metrics now and give folks on the call and opportunity to sort of benchmark themselves see what trends we're seeing and then also look at those year-over-year trends to see sort of how the markets been shifting in in recent years. So yeah if we can just go to the next slide here so we're going to look at the start by looking at the source of applicants and the source of hires and so this is something we also spend a lot of time on in marketing which is you know you don't want to just look at your lead flow which would be applicants for you guys but also look at who you're actually hiring or for us who are becoming customers and so it's a classic mistake that marketers make and I think recruiters fall into this trap as well which is you just look at where the applies coming from versus where are you actually finding your hires it's a natural tendency right you want to keep your recruiters busy you want to keep stuff in the pipeline so to speak but you also want to be sure that the quality is there and that those sources are yielding new hires.

So if we look first at the source of the two you can see here we've got the higher percentage as well as the apply percentage and so you know to Chris's point the job boards drive a huge chunk of the applies over fifty percent based on our benchmarks but if you look at the hires there's a little bit of loss of effectiveness there. So you've got 51 percent of applies but roughly only 20% of your hires whereas with the career site it's more of a one to one in terms of effectiveness you've got thirty six percent of applys and almost the same amount in terms of hires so the job board piece really reinforces the need for optimization and looking at tools like Appcast to help maximize the spend that you're consuming in your job board channel. And then for the career sites again just a huge opportunity it's almost a third of all of your hires so really be sure that you're investing the time and effort into your career site building that employer brand. So if we look at the effectiveness as I just talked about you can see for example agencies you know great effectiveness but very expensive career sites kind of in the middle pretty good effectiveness not necessarily a huge cost there and then the job boards again low on effectiveness but still driving nearly 20% of hires so definitely an opportunity there to optimize the effectiveness and improve that conversion rate from applies into hires.

And so then if we look at some of the other emerging channels so you know internal hires obviously internal mobility is a huge focus for a lot of recruiters out there we continue to see internal mobility among our own customers as rising and importance with decreasing ten years among the new workforce. You know one of the big ways that companies are retaining these folks longer is by you know thinking about their next challenge having a succession plan working with folks to understand what their next job will look like within the company so that they don't go find that job elsewhere. You can still see it's less than 10% of hires so a lot of opportunity to optimize their but certainly the effectiveness is through the roof and the cost is basically zero just the labour cost to run the program internally. Similar with referrals it's always a great source of hires it's over ten percent so we'd love to see that number get higher you know best-in-class among our customers is more like thirty percent but there's a broad spectrum on referrals so this is a good opportunity to look at your referral percentage benchmark yourself and if you haven't invested time in your referral program you know a good time to re-examine that and see where there's opportunities to optimize that or potentially relaunch it within your organization. And then lastly custom campaign so this is that outbound marketing outbound recruiting that you guys may be doing you can see here it's still a very low percentage of hires overall less than 1% but the effectiveness is very high and it continues to grow year over year in terms of percent of hires so something to certainly be thinking about if you aren't doing any outbound recruitment marketing. All right so then in terms of time to hire so as we dig into these next six or seven slides I just wanted to highlight a consistent theme that I saw as we were putting this presentation together.

It's getting harder to hire and so really as you look at the data we have to speculate on the outcomes but there's really only two explanations as we look at this data and I just wanted to frame it before we get started so one is what I already described which is simply the markets getting tighter you're getting less candidates you're being less selective about who you hire you're moving them through the funnel faster. A small percentage of people and again this is anecdotal and talking with our customers they're bucking that trend by building an employer brand and building a talent pipeline and especially in a tight labor market like this one of the only ways that you can continue to find that top talent is really by focusing on that employer brand giving those passive job seekers visibility into what it's like to work for your company. Let them do that research upfront and then the second phase is to do some of that outbound marketing and build that talent pipeline so that when they move from a passive job seeker to an act job seeker your company is top of mind for them. So as we dig into the data building on what I just described you can see that we continue to see the time to hire decreasing right so as a talent crunch continues recruiters are being forced to you know move folks through the funnel faster.

Again as I describe some of those best-in-class companies they claim that that time to hire is not solely due to the tightening labor market but also the fact that they have a great career site mobile apply experience solid presence on Glassdoor so that the candidates are already very well-versed on the company the organization the department and even their specific role before they ever submit an application and so once they actually start moving through the traditional hiring funnel they move through those stages very quickly. Alright so in terms of a year-over-year data on beyond the time to hire stuff you can see here again we've got fewer candidates so it's taking less time to hire them and they're moving through the funnel faster. And so again nothing different than what I just described we just continue to see a trend and it's due to one of two reasons right it's  either just simply those macroeconomic factors or if you're building that good employer brand you aren't not necessarily going to need as many candidates because you've got a higher quality of apply. And then the rate of interviews is relatively unchanged we're more seeing this downstream so one point to make here is that you know it's been roughly a tight cluster so if you're thinking about benchmarking yourself we don't see a huge variation in this one so you can assume that something like 1 in 10 or a little bit better is is a fair conversion rate between those folks that apply and those folks that you're interviewing and again this is due to either of those factors you need to kind of be introspective about your own organization whether or not you would attribute this to having a great employer brand so that the folks who apply are already a better fit so thing like job descriptions are you investing the time to write a thorough and comprehensive job description or is it simply due to the fact that the labor market is really tight and you're having to lower your standards on those folks that you convert from applications to interviews. Again it's really case-by-case and something to sort of examine within your own organization talk to your recruiting team about and sort of make a determination about that within your own company.

This one we are seeing a good trend here so and again the is over and over it's so consistent throughout the data but I'll just keep reinforcing it so we're seeing again a similar percentage of folks making it from apply to hire but a consistently increasing percentage of folks getting from the interview to the offer same exact explanation right it's only one of two outcomes as far as we can tell. You're either doing a great job up front so you're interviewing the right people or the markets tight and you're sort of limited on your talent pool and you're being forced to lower the bar and extend offers to candidates that might not have qualified in a tighter labor market three or four years ago. Okay and then interviews to offer so not a huge fluctuation here it's been bouncing around between 80 and 90 percent over the last three to four years. You know one thing that we've heard from some recruiters is to simply have more money in organization doing a better job of benchmarking on salaries Glassdoor and other companies are adding transparency to salaries within companies so it's forcing folks to be more competitive but also you know in a strong up economy like this organizations have more money to spend on labor and therefore can you know can put out more competitive offers. All right so if I was going to you know highlight some of the key takeaways and you know Chris chimed in here but we've got you know the lower unemployment and the macroeconomic trends that we described at the top of the hour really driving a lot of what we're seeing in the data you know Chris mentioned the local importance and kind of understand handing those markets you've really got to know you know how things vary from one market to another particularly on the job board strategy and and the stuff that Appcast is doing.

The mobile device stuff that Chris talked about is critical right I mean if you don't have a mobile apply process and a mobile optimized career site it's definitely time to look into that as an organization and then when we looked at the bottom of funnel stuff we see you know a lot of trends shifting upwards and again it's due to one of two outcomes and so I'm not going to make that determination for each of you but it's certainly clear in the data andI think you know a reminder to really take that time pull up out of the individual recs that you're filling just like us as marketers you get caught up in wanting to you know meet the needs of your sales organization for you guys you're hiring teams and filling the reqs of today but you really need to be thinking about that long term employer brand and building that talent pipeline. We've got decreasing ten years and a very tight labor market so you know this is the year I think of the employer brand and to really think about what you're doing with your job board strategy your career site strategy and building that kind of long-term brand equity among job seekers. Chris anything you want to add here sort of in parting thoughts. You still there.

Annie: I believe Chris actual just got it out of the audio. Claire if you want to add him back in.

Claire: And in the meantime I see a bunch of questions coming in here so we're going to let's get Chris back on the line and then we can kind of close out with any parting thoughts from him and then we can start to field some of these questions since it looks like we've got you know 10 to 15 minutes left for that absolutely so let's start off with just a larger question Angela wanted a recap on where was all this data obtained from and maybe Matt if you want to start off with our side and I’ll work on getting Chris back in.

Matt: Sure so for the the stuff that I share the actual apply metrics through the you know through the funnel what we do here at Jobvite so we have over 60 million job seekers who have applied to various Jobvite customers and we aggregate and anonymize all of that data and we have these standard stages in the funnel the ones that we talked about so you know site visitors to applies applies to interview interview to offer and so on and so we anonymize that data and produce the benchmarks based on what we're seeing inside of the Jobvite platform. On the Appcast side I believe it's something similar but I don't want to misspeak. Do we have Chris back on the audio now? Danny do you think you can take that of where the benchmark data comes from on your end.

Danny: Yeah so this is all the data is from our 2018 benchmark for states within the process of creating our benchmark report now and everyone who is registered to this webinar will get access to it in just a few weeks our annual report.

Matt: Yeah so the Appcast ones forthcoming in the next couple of weeks and then the Jobvite benchmark report was completed back in late February and so in the first quarter of of each year we look at the benchmarks from the previous year and roll out that report. So that's available on the Jobvite website and then we also have a survey of job seekers which couples really nicely with this where we survey a couple thousand job seekers across the US different than the benchmark report not necessarily all job seekers at Jobvite companies but simply folks who are in the market looking for work and so there's also some really interesting information in there to kind of reconcile the benchmark data with what we're learning from job seekers out there in the market.

Claire: Perfect, so we have a question from Adam and he asks,”What qualifies as a bad hiring experience?”

Matt: Yeah and I think that one was from the slide that I showed at the top and that was simply a survey question so it was a multiple-choice question that was asked of candidates asking them and we  just called it a bad hiring experience. So the devil is in the details there. I think anecdotally what I can share in talking with candidates and recruiters in you know in my travels around the trade shows and our own Jobvite events. The number one factor for bad hiring   experience above and beyond anything else we hear is the black hole resume experience so if I was going to give one piece of feedback on what we hear from job seekers that gets them out on social posting negative comments about a hiring process is the idea that they applied for a job and just never heard back. And so you know the rejection part of what you guys do as recruiter isn't always the funnest I mean the reality is you guys are in the rejection business more than you're in the hiring business if you think about how many candidates you actually have to screen and reject to find one hire but I would encourage you to always close the loop with every candidate.

There's nothing worse for them than to get excited about a position feel like they're a perfect fit submit a resume and then never hear anything back. And then the second one is is the day of interview logistics so that the other big one that we hear from candidates which is they come into an organization much like we talked about in the webinar they've done tons of research they feel like they have a good understanding of the company from the outside looking in and this is finally their opportunity to see the company from the inside and then they come in they sit in a room for a half an hour the organization of the interview schedule is not well coordinated all four interviewers ask them the same five questions over and  over again and they really don't walk away feeling like either side has been fulfilled they don't feel like they get a chance to highlight enough of their skill set and they also don't feel like they learn enough about the company.  So there's a lot in there in terms of bad hiring experience but if I was going to call out the two biggest ones we hear about it's closing the loop with candidates upfront and then having a really tight process for those day of interview logistics.

Claire: Great and we have a question from Karen about, “Do video interviews and assessments prior to interviewing scare off some talent?” Just curious about all this from a talent pool perspective.

Matt: Yeah so I can speak to it from the Jobvite side which is you know we have a video tool that does you know outbound interview questions it's not a two-way interview process. Our research found that very few hiring managers would ever sit and watch a 30 to 60-minute two-way interview between a recruiter and a candidate. We're bigger advocates for using some screening questions sending those out via video we see the best success with it in entry-level positions where you have a handful of candidates that all look very similar on paper so you know you've got folks right out of school or they all have one or two jobs under their belt and it's very difficult to differentiate between them based on their resumes. So that's where we see good success with it but I will agree with you that in some verticals and some markets where it's maybe lower tech or older demographic folks have some resistance to it and so you know it's just something that I think over time it was probably an early adopter technology two or three years ago it's becoming more and more common now.  We find that Millennials typically have no issue with it and they're happy to do the video interviews. So I think it's just something that there's probably still some resistance to it with the older demographic, lower tech demographic and in rural areas but we continue to see that that shift happening and I anticipate you know in the next three to five years of becoming kind of a table stakes part of the recruiting process. But I think you know there's it's a good question I think there is still some resistance in pockets depending on location and demographic.

Claire: All right I apologize everyone.

Chris: Hi guys this is Chris. You know it shouldn't scare anyone that I'm responsible for a technology company but did just need five minutes to get back into a conference call but finally I'm here. So Matt I could hear you the entire time and you did a lovely job answering all the questions so is there any any any color I can provide or are we basically good.

Matt: I think we might have had one question that was better suited for the kind of Appcast side of the house the data if nothing else and then I don't know if there's anything else in there Claire that came through that was Appcast related but at least on the data if you want to kind of talk a little bit about where and how you guys obtain that data. Annie touched on it but that was one question and then I had thrown out there just any parting thoughts when I was concluding the presentation before we went to Q&A if you have anything that you wanted to add.

Chris: Sure so just on the data you know as I mentioned you know during my little stick. We don't talk where that helps marketers and recruiters optimize their job advertising even though we're only about four and a half years old we've been really lucky to be trusted by you know some of the leading you know brands and employers globally that buy a lot of recruitment advertising and as a result you know the data that we have is anonymized data you know from about 600 of our customers that represent a massive you know a very large portion of performance ad buying and you know like last year it was 1.4 billion job ad clips that were purchased for our platform. So it's longitudinal it's from ad agencies it's from jobboard that from gig providers it's from lots of Fortune 1000 employers is from small fast growing companies all of this is US data I think that's important to say. And then in terms of just the closing stuff you know I think that we've hit everybody  over the head enough about this.

Number one is the labor market in most cases again you know you can never draw complete generalizations it's tightening people job seekers your your one way of looking at the consumers or your customers that you're endeavoring to sell something to have choices and when people have choices they get significantly more discerning in the decisions that they make and what they're looking for is they are looking for high quality and they're looking for great values and they're looking to be treated you know with respect and so organizations that are able to communicate their value to job seekers organizations that you know pay respect to job seekers now they're treated and how easy it is to interact with them perform very very well in these types of environments and it exacerbates problems for companies that don't necessarily check the box in this area. So I guess the bottom piece of advice is just understanding that and you know there are no magic wands in the world but wake up every day use data to inform and benchmark your decisions and endeavor to make it better every single day.

Claire: Okay so we've got our next question and it's for Chris. In what cases do you think it's best to buy CPC or CPA ads versus hosts?

Chris: A good question when you look across all like job ads that are posted online that are paid to be posted online about 6% of them get 40% of applicants but 49%  of them in aggregate 2% of applicants and then you've got this sliver of a you about 45% that kind of get about 35% of applicants. So I always say that this is a it's a situation of you know the classic tree bowl supports one two hot ones we called one basically okay. For jobs that do not traditionally get lots of applications buying and performance makes both economic as well as marketing sense because you're only paying for people that are engaging with your job ad contest. It also means because you're doing that you can advertise in more places for you know the same basically the same budget. So says differently if you have a job of we're used to spend $400 on a posting and you get two applications you can now spend $400 on clicks but spread that across not one site of ten sites and you will get if in fact you spend your $400 it means that you spent $400 where people are actually engaging with your ad and you will most likely get something to rehire application for so in that bowl of porridge clearly buying performance makes sense. For the middle bowl of porridge the ones that's basically just right be honest answer is is that if you manage your performance advertising effectively you will get better value there as well.

And what effectively means it mean two things number one is turn off your job after you've gotten enough applied okay so you don't have a runaway job that keeps up a bunch of your budget and the second thing is to is to bid to market oftentimes recruiters are not marketers and so you know online is the little people and they'll bid something that isn't necessarily being driven by market. That's why the AppCast is still  kind of cost-per-click benchmark report or show value. So if you do those two things you probably end up saving some money or spending the same amount of money and getting slightly more applicants if you need a few more. The one area where actually good old-fashioned straightforward job posting oftentimes provide the great you know the greatest value is for position for your job that typically have high applicant twelve require a lot of volume. So again going to that $400 example if you've got an ad that you can spend $400 for and you can get you know six hundred applications because it's a job that a lot of people want and in fact you can get multiple hires from those applications so think you know call centers or you know inside sales rep or customer service rep. Often times you'll find for those high-volume single higher position job postings can be more economically beneficial than not then even CPC. So anyway long story short is it's typically a math problem but that's the basic concept.

Claire: Perfect okay so we're going to move on to a two from Stephanie because they're on similar topics. So what tips can you give for recruiters who are seeking candidates outside of their current location? And she asks more for suggestions on building employment brand across locations with new offices where you might not have as much market presence.  I'm going to start this one off with Matt and then Chris obviously fill in as you'd like.

Matt: Yeah so a lot of you know Jobvite has a history of companies and technology and a lot of healthcare companies so geo expansion is a big part of our customer base and I think there's two big ways that we see opportunities from an employer brand perspective and I think about it as inbound and outbound marketing and so for the you know inbound stuff I would encourage folks on their career site to think about  cutting the site up not just in terms of departments but also in terms of actual locations. And so there's a lot of good examples out there companies where you can look not just that say what it's like in engineering or in marketing or sales but also you know what is the Raleigh-Durham office like and how does that compare to the San Francisco office and so including those offices you can do kind of a simple office tour even with your own you know the phones now are producing such high quality video you can even do it yourself and post it.

And then so that's some of the ideas around career site and then in terms of outbound you know one of the things we've seen great success with is encouraging your own employees to post stuff out so just getting employees talking on social media about new offices opening in their excitement around that and then when we talk about outbound campaigns one of the classic topics that recruiters like to use for outbound marketing campaigns is the announcement of you know increased hiring which is often due to expanding into new Geo's and so that would be the other way to do it is you know just simply sending outbound emails and then with sites like LinkedIn or Twitter or Facebook you can invest a relatively small amount of spend when you get into geo targeting so if you're opening an office in Portland Oregon for example you can use those geofilters on sites like LinkedIn and Facebook and focus solely on engineers in the Portland area with a certain skill set in their LinkedIn profile for example so you're really hyper targeting your marketing which makes it relatively inexpensive but also you know getting after that exact prospective candidate that you're looking for. So those would be kind of a handful of suggestions that I would offer up Stephanie on on kind of driving awareness into new office locations.

Claire: Chris did you have anything to address that you mentioned geo before.

Chris: Oh absolutely! yeah you know so there's two things first off a lot of companies find that they do research about where you know that there's  two things number one is getting people interested in relocating to you. Do research about where those people you live work and play in which cities and then place job ads there other performance job ads or postings that in the job title explain that you know where the job is and that relocation is paid. It works slick in fact you'll typically for those ads have to do some additional writing to explain in the job ad about that and why moving to your area is super cool is if it's not Santa Monica or someplace like that. But the we've got a lot of clients that have found that technique worked really really really well with high end you know kind of folks consultants the medical folks you know technologist. But one of the details that kind of get lost is that for those jobs and this is a reason why you should either you might want to consider this as a performance ad campaign meaning cost-per-click rather than duration base when you buy a duration base ad campaign they ask you for one location of us where the job theoretically is.

But the wage job alerts work you know those emails that you get in your inbox which dirty secrets drive about 65% of the traffic that job sites have. It's all driven by zip and so you know you put in your home zip code about where you know you live or where you're interested in a job and then they find matching positions to that zip code and send them to you. If you did a good strategy as a performance ad you can actually spin a lot of versions of those ads for each one of the different zip codes. In a particular metro area and you know we call this the zip code expansion not a horribly creative name and it has a massive impact in terms of your ability to get volume. Now some job sites don't like it like Zip will put up with I’m sorry you know Indeed we'll put up with this if in fact is the tactics to fill a specific job or you know one or two offs they don't love this type of thinglike if you're a truck driving company and you constantly have 25,000 of the same jobs just spun up for different zip code but it's a really effective way of kind of driving volume is departed not to the city but the zip code.

Claire:  Perfect so I think Chris we've got time for maybe one more question it's teed up on job boards as well and then we will finish it all up. Just as a reminder to everyone because I know it's getting to the top of the hour you guys will be receiving the recording and the slides after the webinar probably in your inboxes tomorrow morning and then that SHRM credit number in case that's of interest for you guys. So for the last question we've got I am something from Adam the challenge in paying for posting is for the most part you either get a low level of volume or a high level of volume of quality is low what's your advice to overcome this is paying for performance still paying for people who apply are just quality see and that apply.

Chris: Yeah so paper performance is can take lots of different you know modes. You know the most common paper performance advertising is cost per click advertising where rather than paying for an ad to be posted online or in a newspaper for a certain amount of time you only pay when somebody actually looks at your ad okay and when they click on your ad and you know that's the one has been you know popularized and commercialized by Google. Outside of the job space you have cost per action advertising where you can pay for not somebody you know clicking on your ads but actually filling out a form or actually making a phone call or even there are you know kind of cost per conversions where you actually pay only when can we buy the products. And recruitment the farthest it's really come down the funnel and let your spending literally a million dollars a month and there are people that are very sophisticated they can buy their traffic in different ways but the furthest down the performance funnel is cut each economist tip could basically pay cost per applicant rather than cost per click. Now does moving down the funnel going from paying for posting so it's a cost per click does that if it's effectively managed improve your ROI generally speaking it does.

There's a reason why a lot of the duration based ad companies you know that used to sell posting didn't immediately adopt the pay-per-click model would indeed started to get traction the reason being is that it typically is about a 30 percent haircut. They would sell the same product and they make thirty percent less money that means that you would end up spending 30% less money. There's a reason why you know Appcast full disclosure all over over the products that we sell on a media basis or cost applicant. A lot of people talk about it but there's not a lot of people were chasing us per se because we represent another 30 percent haircut from cost per click is that you know if you're paying for applicant you're not paying for all the wasted you know clicks of you occur on an applicant tracking system. But the key thing to understand is that the applicants that titrate through to the bottom line their quality is a function of where you put your ads and how well they're written and how good your employment brand happens to be. So if what you're saying is is that you know I've advertised on every job sites and all sorts of active candidates and every time I do that the candidates that I get aren’t worth it.

There's no way that changing how you pay for the ads is going to change that outcome for you and also you know paying for performance isn't you know my net for less it's not a guarantee that it's going to just be radically cheaper but what it is it allows you to start to say oh okay I'm buying from five sources I track you know how much each click cost to track how much each application cost I then use my job by platform to understand how many of those applies turn in interviews and how many come into hires and what I find is is that out of my five sources two of them are awesome two of them are okay and one sucks. The two that are great I'm going to bid up so that I can get more volume from them because they're good and I can afford to pay that the two that are okay I'm going to leave it the same and the one that's that I'm going to knock that person's out and I'm going to put someone else in and so by moving to a pay-for-performance kind of buying and marketing model what it allows you to do is if you use data to evaluate it to improve and constantly be you know incrementally improving the ROI that you get and if you do that for six to nine months you're going to wake up and you're going to have an ad program that works really really well.

Claire: Perfect so we're three minutes over so thanks everyone for joining us and thank you to Chris and Matt for presenting in the entire Appcast team. You guys know you're awesome and so once again recording slides will be in your inbox tomorrow morning Thanks hope everyone has a wonderful day bye everyone.