95% of recruiters expect their jobs to be more challenging in 2017. This webinar takes a look at what recruiters are most interested in and what trends you need to look for.
Watch "The Future of Recruiting: Top 3 Trends from the 2016 Recruiter Nation Survey" to hear Dan Finnigan, CEO at Jobvite, and Kris Dunn, Founder of Fistful of Talent, share their insights, along with:
Claire Alloway: Welcome to today's webinar the future of recruiting the top three trends from the 2016 recruiter nation study my name is I'm here from the marketing team here at Jobvite. I'm just going to go over some introductions before we get started. One note that I know I'll get questions on is, yes - you will be receiving the slides after the webinar along with a full recording. So first up here are today's speakers so we have Rachel Bitte who is our Chief People Officer here at Jobvite she'll be moderating and sharing some key statistics from the survey. We also have Dan Finnigan our CEO here at Jobvite and Chris Dunn the founder of Fistfull Talent and the CHRO at Kinetix. You can see all their Twitter handles at the bottom so feel free to tweet them during the webinar but we'd actually love for you to join the conversation on twitter using the #jvchat you can also use our handle @jobvite and we'll be following along there on Twitter and answering any questions you have there. So to get started I'm going to pass it over to Rachel for our first topic.
Rachel: Great thank you Claire. Welcome everyone we're thrilled to have you joining us today we really do have two experts in the space of talent acquisition who I know both just came off of a trip to Chicago for HR Tech last week so fresh ideas and perspectives from our customers and prospects and analysts and other leaders in the industry. So we're thrilled to have that joined with the Jobvite Recruiter Nation Study that we also have as well. We're going to kick off right away into our first theme which is all around live or die by your candidate experience. This is really no longer becoming an optional for customers, in fact it's becoming super critical as we look at the world of transparency and candidates getting insights into companies just as you know companies have always gotten insights about candidates as part of the interview process but that really being a two-way street in understanding each other and looking for matches.
The thing that we'd love to just share is that there's so much about this space you know Dan was coming off a bunch of analyst meetings last week with HR Tech and you know the analysts really wanted to talk a lot about the talent pool and that experience that they're having through the hiring process also a lot about collaborative hiring right. It's no longer just a relationship between a recruiter and a hiring manager and a candidate but their collaboration across the different social medias that are out there also the rest of the interview team and the rest of the company and then another overarching theme that he really heard was around predictive analytics and so foreheads of talent acquisition and HR leaders really thinking about how do you use data and information to get predictive in the work that you do.
I know that Chris has worked with a lot of companies and so has a very broad perspective in looking at companies and how they think about metrics and data in this space. So we'll jump right in stat number one 69% of all job seekers would not take a job with a company that had a bad reputation even if they were unemployed so that tells you something about candidates continuing to be particular about their choices that they take and having options in what they're wanting to do. It is still very competitive for the best candidates the data showed us that again but at the same time candidates are having a lot more information about companies before and what's interesting is that they're actually doing a lot of their homework and they're actually having a perspective on a company before they even really engage with that company. Whether it's out there on social media sites or just information about an employment brand they actually are doing homework even before they're having even phone interviews with recruiters. The other thing we noticed too is that 59% of candidates say they've actually searched on social media.
So they're actually telling us that that's the case so that came from our Job Seeker Nation done earlier this year. So that just tells you a lot about reputation and brand really kind of plays into this candidate experience. We look we asked specifically recruiters you know do they anticipate the job market will continue to be competitive and even see here from 2003, ‘14 and ‘15 and ‘16 it's still really high at that 95% and candidates are still really in the driver's seat you know they're the ones that are really asking and demanding that that experience be fantastic. They're wanting information and to be have communication they're also wanting transparency and something that's really vital to that entire hiring planning process but there's also something around authenticity that is really continuing to emerge in this world of transparency.
The other interesting statistic that we noticed in the the recruiters survey too with that the recruiters are 58% of recruiters are saying that candidates are just much more confident and even negotiating and so as a staffing organization having a recruiting team that really is comfortable with that and being able to do that and really recognizing that candidates are negotiating as part of that supply and demand that's so prevalent. And so that's kind of our first name what I'd love to reach out with Chris and Dan is really kind of ask them a couple questions I mean these are folks who really have a tremendous amount of insights in the industry and also just hot off of doing lots of connections with HR Tech last week. So you know Dan I'd love to start with you. You know why do you think companies are still not really concentrating on the candidate experience in the way that they need to be.
Dan: A good question. I was just on the East Coast on Monday with very large enterprise company in the automotive space and before as I usually do before talking about Jobvite and the like I just asked them what are they dealing with and they had people representing all their subsidiaries from Canada - Mexico and across the country people who run warehouses and driver services as well as retail operations and across the board there was a I detected a strong anxiety around almost an immediate recognition that the words they used were candidate experiences they were using the words. Can experience not not us that they're very concern learned that they have a horrible candidate experience that they've had for a long long time this is the company that started in the 20’s it's quite big it's not necessarily a fast-growing sexy company but it's one now that they say they're really struggling finding enough warehouse people and drivers as well as, of course the traditional white-collar work in marketing and finance and so why had they not been focusing on.
It might I feel like this is become a perfect storm for folks in recruiting, number one you just kind of walk through some numbers that prove it that the supply and demand for labor right now has never been tighter. The unemployment rate I've been in this space since 1995 in an online recruiting of some form and I've never seen the supply and demand of labor as tight as it is in any educational socioeconomic status group. So that's one thing that's just a reality that puts the power in the hands of those who are looking for work or it would be open to new work. Second thing where I think most people now are quite aware that people don't stay at jobs as long as they used to anymore you know the the most recent recessions the last two recessions had a dramatic increase in the number of layoffs previous to any recessions in our past. And what that did was sever any kind of confidence that employees have that a single company is going to provide them a career path so they feel like they have to create their own career path and so they are always looking.
Another reason they're always looking is because they can that's what's happened with the introduction of online recruiting and job boards and now some professional networks like LinkedIn and then ultimately it you know the mobile telephone which makes accessibility so high they can you know in during during a break a walk outside to get a drink of water they can check their phone quickly and then finally I would call it the Glassdoor effect and you've already alluded to it in a world of social media you can't be a restaurant that doesn't care about Yelp reviews or you'll not you'll do terribly. Well you can't be now a company in fact a several the people brought up the fact that people were complaining about interviewing for jobs at these companies on Glassdoor and so I think that the you know all those things create a kind of perfect storm that creates the need to pay attention to candidate experience and I think your team really specifically answer your question why are they not concentrating on it.
I think they are I think that it's difficult and I think you know when you start talking to people in human resources and recruiting about building a brand that is attractive to job seekers and building a candidate experience that is wonderful similarly to with a head of marketing and Apple and thinking about their brand and their customer experience I think it's difficult and I think recruiting departments are never have a surplus of labor they themselves see very tight budgets and are having to work double hard in this market right now and so they really don't have the time and be and in some cases I think there is a new expertise that they need to bring in to their function. You know I support Monday and I also two weeks ago with them with another company I suggested because both these companies have strong consumer brands I suggested that they go talk to the people in the marketing department and ask for help and because they probably have more resources than the HR department has and they probably have some expertise that recruiting doesn't have and I think they probably have some empathy as well right because their employees so that that's how I feel.
Rachel: Right now I think it's a great call out with regards you talk about accessibility and we talked about you know you can look at something on your phone but you can also just actually apply for a job on your mobile device now I mean things have gotten so fast in that technology space. I think it's great to get that perspective on all the different perfect storms and like what's making it difficult for folks you know Chris I'd love to hear I mean you work with tons of other you know companies and lots of different industries and you see this perspective is there other things that you were seeing that is making it difficult for companies to concentrate on this and or maybe why it's difficult and and how come how folks can think about overcoming that that hurdle.
Chris: Yeah what I mean I appreciate the question I think I agree with Dan first of all there is a perfect storm I mean you know you look at you know the chart that said 95 of recruiters you know think it's like extremely competitive I forget exactly how it was framed but if you look at that that's just an you look at the trailing factor you know 2013-2014 you see it coming up so we're obviously a peak economic cycle and then Dan really alluded to the way I always frame it is we are in a review economy now right and the old days of Glassdoor and and some of the different sites that are out there from an employee rating perspective the old days it was people who got terms and they went there to rant but what happened you know Dan mentioned restaurants and what happened over time with the emergence of the smartphone and the fact that you know a wider like range of employees is now willing to rate and it's both employees and candidates but those people now do reviews as part of their normal life.
So certainly Glassdoor and sites that are like that that are based on company reputation have a much deeper penetration rate and the feedback on the sites has never been more balanced so it's this mix of good and bad so the clearly get more attention and are really perceived as being credible to much greater degree than they've ever been then you've got peak economic cycle and when you turn that around Rachel and Dan like what we is that candidate experience is really broken down into three parts and companies are doing the right thing because we're a peak economic cycle they're feeling the pain they've got this reputation thing that maybe they didn't have to deal with in the past so now they're saying well candidate experience is one of those things that we need to turn the corner on and what they're finding is there's some all of it's difficult to turn your culture from being a company that didn't care about candidate experience to turning into one that values that and wants to create a very positive candidate experience is basically three areas that we see.
The first is some of the things that are driven by technology so when you think about solutions like Jobvite those are great ways to automate some of your processes and really do it with a sense of authenticity and transparency and personality. I think Jobvite delivers that better than most solutions do with our view of the industry and I think you can automate some things to make sure that you don't drop the ball on some things that should be happening acknowledge receipt of a resume doing a better job of enabling recruiters and managers to tell candidates where you are in the process. That's very very important companies are turning their attention to that but one of the things they that's harder to change is once you get in that interview process what actually goes on I think it's very hard to train managers in your company to really sell the company and to understand that in peak economic cycle that they're no longer in a position of power in an interview has to not only be about determining whether the candidates the best fit for the job and whether they want to make an offer.
But they've also got to pretty quickly be in sales mode to that candidate who now based on peak economic cycle and the fact that maybe your company reputation ratings aren't as good as they should be that hiring managers got to make them believe that that's a place that they actually want to work. So I think you know when you think about like the automation and some of the things that create a positive candidate experience that's one thing you know Jobvite does a great job of helping people with that but they're still this big void in terms of what happens once you deliver a candidate to a hiring manager and I think that's the place where if we look two three five years into the future companies like the one Dan mentioned like Jobvite going to be able to give them some great help initially but they're really it's a battleship they have to turn that's going to take time it's kind of my thoughts Rachel.
Chris: I think it's funny you say that because I think that is exactly right this is I said almost verbatim on Monday I said you have to take it one step at a time and you have to break it down into steps and maybe one way to do it is to think through literally the journey that a candidate has with your company and take it one step of the journey at a time because that's what a marketing person does they look at the customer's journey. Right and you know the other thing you said was you know about hiring managers for example and we have not that advertise the fact but we have this mobile app that is focused only on hiring managers not on recruiters and people asked us why didn't you create a mobile app for recruiters and they said well first of all number one you're in Jobvite every minute of every day doing a lot of work.
Second it's hiring managers doing but they said they were going to do showing on time and asking the right questions and filling out a candidate evaluation candidates cannot stand it if their perception is that a hiring manager because they they drove all the way to the building to pour this interview if the hiring manager is late if a hiring manager just seems to sit down and go oh okay so tell me about you know they don't even know what they're going to ask them. So the hiring manager app is a way to have the recruiting department organized managers day so they do show up on time they do that the right questions they do fill you up fill out the interview evaluation and then final thing I'll says is what I'm calling this glass door effect in this social world it's the ultimate of feedback loop that's going to help recruiting and here's why CEOs now are rated on Glassdoor they will care and they're going to increasingly care and you know Glassdoor has debated internally for years when if and when they should have a manager rating like individual managers like the VP's or the directors and once that I think that's an inevitability and once that hat starts to happen you're really going to have a feedback loop that is going to grab the attention of senior management and that probably will then lead to senior management providing Human Resources and recruiting more resources to do the job right.
Rachel: I think guys are onto a lot of great themes around like why do companies struggle with doing this I know we had a question a webinar we did a week or so ago that some folks were even struggling with how do I get my leadership to even understand the transparency is really important and that this is caught up. So I think we see lots of data that can help make that burning platform I know a large company I worked with previously like we literally turned it on the dime and said guess what that candidate could actually be a customer because we had consumer products and it was it was it was a switch that happened for hire managers she's like oh crap you're right they could actually go by our consumer products and so you know for those of you are the consumer space that's a great one to try to leverage right but I do think that beyond that it is that word-of-mouth that is so prevalent it's happening today about managers right people call each other like I think you might know this later I'm thinking about going interview there so it's a matter of time before that gets on there.
Dan: It's a cultural change I mean I can say thirty years ago the culture was more hey it's your boss do what they say did yesterday the CEO Wells Fargo is out out and I think that the half-life of senior management is shortening and it's because there is much more transparency and our culture let alone in the job market.
Rachel: Thank you guys for both of your comments on this and your your expertise is fantastic anything else you just add on candidate experience before we move on to our next thing.
Chris: I think I'm good.
Rachel: That's great so our next theme is around post hire metrics are really gaining momentum and I know that you know I started as recruiter 15 years ago my metrics were all not post hire and how that really is transforming and so we saw this data come through so 61% of recruiters are actually naming post hire metrics as most important to measure which is really kind of an interesting statistic. Let's actually show you what they start to talk about. So this year performance of the hire was 37% which is you know fantastic last year that was actually you know up there as well but it's over a 10-point list from last year and retention rate of talent wasn't even in our top like seven or eight last year and it's number two this year so it went from kind of nowhere on this graph last year to number two. Of course time to fill has been I think last year it was 14% this year it's 13% so it's still kind of correlated and tie still arena but I think what was staggering to us is that performance of hire jumped more than 10 points in a year and then the retention of that talent wasn't even on this scale last year and it's number two at 24%.
So I think the interesting part we start to ask ourselves like you know are you all even me here a Jobvite are we measuring this and then how are you doing against some of those measurements and then a very great now you have a picture potentially of how you're doing but then how are you doing similar to other companies or industries or in your region right because then in starts to be what should my goals be in comparison. I think that gets into a lot of the analytics data that can be really helpful as a TA leader and as a recruiter and kind of what do you want to be doing to improve and that in that whole candidate experience. So we'd love that you guys interactive welcome to interactivity the bowl we have is that recruiters should be measured on a new hires performance up to how many days is it zero like one place on the offer letter it's done 30 days 60 days 90 days six months or a year.
So we know that we'd love to really hear from you guys on what this should be and we'll let you guys kind of start to chime in on all of that I've got to jump into some Q&A with Dan and Chris but we're going to come back and see what those results start to tell us so tell us what you guys think that recruiters should be kind of looking to be measured on from a post hire perspective. So great with that you know in this arena you know what do you guys I thought I mean Chris we'll start with you first like what do you think the answer on this will be you have a ton of industry experience and lots of different companies that you get a chance to work with what do you think it will be and then we'll kind of double go to the results and we'll ask you whether you agree or disagree with how's that.
Chris: Yeah well I was a little surprised to see you know just the you know the quality you know the quality things kind of like bubble up to the top on that that poll question or the question on the Jobvite survey mainly because it's so difficult to measure. So I think you know I think we're all like well keep an eye towards cost per hire we all keep an eye towards time to fill because candidly if you don't keep your eye on that and if you don't manage that as a recruiting or a town acquisition leader that's one of the things that can put you in your functional area in a lot of jeopardy if you're not filling jobs in a timely fashion so to see that to see those two things go down and performance of the new hire and retention of the new hire go up was a little surprising to me and that and the best way to say this.
I'm going to throw it to Dan the best way that I can describe why I'm surprised by that is because from a total like talent management perspective I understand once you get out of production positions once you get out of sales positions I kind of understand how difficult getting quality performance data is so I almost think that's more of a of a wish I think it's more recruiters telling us what they wish it was and what they'd like it to be because candidly most of our companies have performance data that at the at the most you could go thumbs-up thumbs-down in terms of the performance of a new hire it's not like it's going to be based on solid metrics it's still going to be very qualitative and Dan I now I know you've got some thoughts on this so I'll throw it to you and then maybe I'll com back in after you comment.
Rachel: Can I said I pop in just to share the results that we're actually seeing on the poll so almost 34% of folks said 90 days and the next two trailers was at 19% for a year and 18% at 30 days so to share with you all thank you for all your voting and your polling it gives us an idea of where folks are thinking and this should be so and Dan love to have your thoughts on.
Dan: Well a couple of thoughts by the way the poll itself is confirming what I've been thinking now for a little while here the notion of quality of higher because you know when you talk to people I think Chris just nailed it when you talk at a qualitative level everyone says what quality of higher is most important there's there's quality of higher there's speed of higher and there's cost of higher. And for years now I've felt it's pretty clear that companies aren't obsessed with the cost to hire like they used to be and I've hypothesized for years now and we've seen and talking to customers that at the end of the day speed of hire is really important and the reason is that a requisition is created a job is open because there's a problem that needs to be solved and having that unfilled creates an ongoing problem there's opportunity cost to that job being unfilled and I as even a CEO of any company have kind of had the point of view that if my hiring managers don't fill the job they means that they haven't found someone do is good enough to fill the job and then if they had filled the job that they found someone that they can be accountable for doing the job and so that as a result speed of hire and candidates who go through the interview process more quickly I've had this assumption that there's something about them that means they're a better candidate than someone who goes through the process more slowly and as a result at Jobvite we've been building an algorithm machine learning algorithm to begin to predict how fast your position will be filled based on the quality and volume of candidates in the pipeline.
Now when I've been talking to recruiters lately how you held accountable how are you held accountable they'll always say quality of hire and I said well okay how does that measure because an era when we have performance management data folding in to a recruiting system seems almost like Buck Rogers and at the very beginning a Jobvite we said our job is to put the word hiring back in hiring manager. Where hiring managers are accountable that they shouldn't hire someone they don't think you can do the job and so when I've been asking a lot lately of recruiters what really do you think is fair there's so many variables to predict the quality of person in a company culture of the company the quality of the hire manager the definition of the job the issues they're facing in the marketplace so on and so forth and pretty much everyone has the point of view of well you know the trial period which in our culture is 90 days and so I'm not surprised hear that the winner by a lot is 90 days.
That somehow that seemed number one fair you know if a candidate is a clear disaster within the first 90 days recruiting has to play a part as well as the hiring manager in accountability on that.The other thing by the way being 90 days it's soon enough that recruiting can actually act on that feedback okay so that can is didn't work out why for these reasons alright well let's focus on candidates more like this as opposed to that but if you say that the quality of a candidate two years from now is that the recruiting department is responsible first of all most companies I think hire and fire recruiters so flippantly that the recruiters is probably not even there but to say that the recruiting department is responsible two years into the future on the cause I put the weight on the hiring manager's a little bit more responsible but within 90 days I think recruiting should be co-responsible for the quality.
Rachel: We actually had this joke the other day and I kind of said yeah but there were some people that I said do not hire as a recruiter and completely I was not the primary decision-maker and the folks didn't end up panning out usually and then it you know then you're like okay let's learn from that so there's a partnership that comes into play right and partnership and both of those voices to be able to assess talent and look for great matches. And I think even you know Chris you were talking about too of like you know when your time when your speed of trying to hire drags out that just increases your cost as well which could be really detrimental to an organization potentially in what they're looking at to from like you know Chris I don't we have a couple seconds you know Chris has a metric around hiring manager batting average which we are in baseball season and don't bring up the Dodgers guys with keep key game today I definitely learned to keep track of my CEO sports if you think am I really that moody I guess sometimes yes but if on his winning is losing so you know. Can you have a little bit about your high every manager batting average so I know we're talking a lot about kind of recruiters and metrics that are here but I think this is a good one around the partnership between hiring managers and talent acquisition just a couple seconds.
Chris: Yeah absolutely and I think the key part you know Dan I thought nailed it when he said hey we're trying to put the hiring back into hiring manager so you know the quality of the match is based off of like a lot of folks it's not only the recruiter but it's the hiring manager so we've got this thing we've done for a couple of our clients where on the agency side and we typically get pretty deep relationship with clients so we pitched something called a hiring manager batting average and basically what it does and Dan I think you'll like it because it encapsulates that's at risk and everything that can make a hire go very very right or very wrong and basically what we do is we look at the data and we look at all the hires a hiring manager makes and if the person is still there at the end of the year we consider that to be a hit and if somebody's not there after one year with the company we consider it to be a miss.
Now we're very like mature about our view of hey the hit or the miss can happen for a variety of reasons so for example we can put the exact right candidate with a hiring manager everybody's in agreement and the hiring manager is bad at onboarding and the hiring managers bad at setting expectations and the hiring manager really can't manage people well that's a miss so what happens is you basically just do simple math and out of all the people that the hiring manager hired how many are actually there one year after the start date and what you get is a percentage much like a batting average and if you do that across 15 20 hiring managers at your company however many you have as long as they have like five to ten hires over time you'll start to see who's really good at it and you'll start to see who's really bad and it probably transcends the hiring process and really gets into hey who's a good manager who knows how to onboard who knows how the set expectations which by the way is one of the things that you have to do in order to leverage the quality hires you do make. So Rachel I know we only had a couple minutes so I'll stop there and let you redirect but we really believe in it we've had a couple clients who have really like taken it and ran with it and it's really change the type of conversations we have as recruiters with those clients.
Rachel: Connection from a talent acquisition organization with an HR line organization as well in that handoff of those candidates and the success and the hiring manager is a constant factor and so how do both of those parts of HR also connect and be able to identify like well we actually really do have a manager is potentially struggling with onboarding. Wow maybe this whole group is or even as a company and so what are you doing to help with that are you it helps you pinpoint I think of that is data and information to then help identify like what are the areas you can improve and go from there so.
Dan: My only reaction that would be I think and I suspect most senior executives or CEOs would believe that at the end of the day the hiring manager is responsible for the quality of hire period and I love your notion of the batting average because I think CEOs would love to see the batting average of different hiring managers. If they saw an entire team with bad batting averages that I think the CEO would start to question than the human resources or recruiting department. If the team has a smattering of really of players with good batting averages and a few with bad I think it's the hiring managers primarily responsibility not the recruiting department.
Rachel: So great so thank you talking about improvement. Our third same is the coming of automation what we asked here in this question which is a little kind of shocking to us when we saw the difference was that job seekers automation concerns really are not aligned job seekers were saying 69% our fear that their jobs may be automated where as recruiters it was only 10% and so that was a little shocking and I think even last year the recruiters side was actually 24% so that's actually dropped from last year which is interesting has kind of gone in a direction that we wouldn't have thought that it was going. So I'd love to throw that kind of back out to the two of you and either one of you feel free to kind of pop in first like you know why do we think there's such a gap we go back to the data cuz I think it's great to kind of visually see it like why do we think there's such a gap here I mean this is a huge gap of job seeker sources recruiters thinking about automation.
Dan: Well you know just Sunday night 60 minutes which is the highest-rated news magazine for decades spent a half hour on automation and robots and I believe that most citizen certainly the working population has been seeing a lot in the news and in the media about the oncoming automation and how that's going to change the world. I also believe and so that therefore I think you know fear is a big part you know a big part of our what they call the limbic brain at the that the stem of our brain is the fight-or-flight and it's quickly quickly triggered one way or the other and I think this is scaring a lot of people so I'm not surprised at the 69%. Another reason I'm not surprised at the 69% is because in fact a big percentage of the working population over the last twenty years has actually experienced it. The kind of job that is available on a car assembly line today at a company like Tesla is very very different than the kind of job of it that was available 25 years ago to a high school grad who was joining his father at a union job in Detroit.
It requires much more skilled a much of the work has been automated you have to therefore work with robots in a car I was in Japan four months ago and I got a tour of the Mazda automotive plant and I was you just have to see it with your own eyes how clearly the workers nowadays have to be very facile in working with computers while they're on an automotive assembly line so 69% does not surprise me. Recruiters are dealing with the hearing now they've got jobs that are open now that need to be filled now and from their point of view they're overworked and underemployed and under-appreciated. So I'm not surprised that they're not saying that all these jobs that they're trying to fill right now will one day be automated out then some I think this is a sign that we don't leverage recruiting enough in Workforce Planning if this was an interview with if this was a survey of CEOs and their belief about the percentage of jobs that will be automated out it'll be somewhere in the middle between those two numbers and the fact is I think automation in what has traditionally called a white-collar world or the services world is going to have is happening and it's going to happen more slowly in a by occupation basis so for example a good example is a lot of people when they graduated from college in New York or Los Angeles and they wanted to go into advertising the first and best job to get out of college was media buying it was an entry-level job and you'd learn the ropes under a team to learn how to buy radio ads and newspaper ads and TV ads. In a world of Google and digital marketing that job doesn't exist anymore there are algorithms that do the media buying today and now you have to be a much more sophisticated demand gen person with years of experience. So we've already seen traditional white collar work be automated out it's just more gradual than it was in manufacturing.
Rachel: Chris wait what's your thoughts I'm kind of like why you see this gap in the in the numbers and you kind of agree with this perspective that we're seeing it from the data.
Chris: Yeah I mean I agree with everything Dan said I see that huge number with job seekers because they or someone that was very close to them has already experienced it I think what you know just like being an advocate for recruiters in the space I think Dan is exactly right they're in the here and now they have a job open and it requires a person so automation really isn't their concern I think one angle I would play on this is that recruiters need to just from a career perspective need to be sensitive to the coming automation that is going to impact the recruiting industry in the talent acquisition industry. I think just like Dan mentioned media buying I think over time we're going to see more and more low level functions of recruiters that have traditionally been managed by recruiters that are probably more farmers than they are hunters.
We're going to see more and more other recruiters job chipped away out I think it will take time but if you look five years from now if you look at decade from now just like Dan mentioned the media buying kind of like now the entry-level job is lead generation and marketing there's a lot of different examples of that in different verticals but what I would encourage all the recruiters listening on this today when it comes to automation is your awareness is low you know this ship is coming for a part of your job as well and I think the recruiters who are really going to thrive in the next five years the next 10 years are the ones who can develop a relationships in a way that the average recruiter can and can deliver the highest value candidates to the companies that they work for. And I just think there's a huge gap here when you look at those numbers recruiters and I believe this just being around a lot of recruiters on a daily basis recruiters think automation isn't going to apply to them I would tell you it already has and just like we see in other industries it's coming for increasingly like hire like I guess you know higher levels of their job it's coming it's going to impact them it may take a little while longer than it has in manufacturing but but it's coming and I just see like a lack of awareness in that slide.
Dan: I think with regard to recruiting I actually not only is it coming I think it's already started to happen in recruiting. You know in the early days of Jobvite we in fact had as kind of our mission is a way to automate out all the boring routine stuff and recruiting so that recruiters can focus on the things that they find interesting and that drive their passion in their category which is talking to people about their career dreams and talking to hiring writers about building teams and we launched for example three years ago this algorithm machine learning algorithm essentially software robot that will help you schedule interviews of look at everyone's calendar everyone's available time and it will calculate the most optimum schedule or three or four or five different optimum schedules.
Well in some companies still today there's a job called scheduler I don't think the scheduler job is going to exist in recruiting for many more years because of things like what we did would be with the algorithm the scheduling algorithm and Jobvite and I think there's other companies that in you know video interviewing that are looking at patterns and people's facial expressions as a predictor of whether they are a fit or not a fit for a job or in their tone of voice or things like that well that stuff I think the human interpretation of what people say and the human interpretation of what hiring managers want that's where the meat of matchmaking and recruiting is I don't see that being automated out but a lot of the routine scalable repeatable work on the scheduling of interviews the communications with candidates the reaching out and sharing of information with candidates. Even the like we have video screening which is a way to automate out the phone screen because you're going to ask five questions you don't want a very busy recruiter spending a half hour with someone who after the second question is answered is clearly not a fit well video screening was built in Jobvite to automate the the phone screen but at the end of the day I don't think the role that the recruiter the key role of the recruiter plays which is over years of doing the job coming up with good judgment and advice to both jobseekers on what's the good fit for them and to hiring managers on who is a good fit for them is going to be automated out. I don't see that in our lifetime.
Rachel: Yeah we talked about that consultative strategic component that organizations play you know.
Dan: Media buying part for example of recruiting is going to be automated out just like it is in marketing and sales.
Rachel: Right I know one of the things that we really saw which prompted a lot of the the mobile app for Jobvite was that recruiters which is what made me that 15 years ago when I started and still even today a chunk of their time is changing hiring managers to get feedback right and so that was one of the driving forces behind our mobile offices that managers can give immediate feedback so we can close candidates right but that worker weren't chasing them right to go get feedback and so I think we have a good idea of like what time is going to go away. I love the flip of to the other side of like what do you think then as a TA or an HR leader where you've got a team of talent like what are the skills and capabilities that we should start to invest more in for them for their continued career progression career growth.
Chris: Well go ahead Dan I'm sorry.
Dan: I would just say that I think the the best analogy would be those professions where automation has changed the game so in marketing for example the marketing people who who didn't run away from these new digital technologies and marketing but instead ran towards it and embraced new technology and tried to be the early masters of it then became the experts that got the promotions in the career path and so at a high level I would just say my advice to anyone in recruiting is to be a thought leader on the new practices push the limits of what your company can do and help for example in our earlier discussion about building an employment brand those who have proven inability to turn that ship around and build an employment brand are the ones we're going to get the promotions.
Rachel: Great Chris love your thought too.
Chris: Yeah Rachel what I would say is that you key leaders out there I think what they've got to do if they look at their team of 5, 10, 20 recruiters whatever they have I think you know with the coming automation that's already here to Dan's point it's going to continue to eat up a higher percentage of that traditional recruiting job. I think the big skill is influence because you know recruiters ability to influence people like you Rachel people like Dan when they when they call them up trying to get them interested in a job their ability to influence the candidates and the influence hiring managers it's really high level and their ability to close whatever issue is in front of them I think that's the difference between the farming part of recruiting which kind of post and prey and then dealing with what comes in all of that's going to be automated the true hunting portion is all about influence it's all about negotiation and it's the skills that already mean recruiters with those skills get paid more today and in the future as you see more and more of a recruiters job eaten up by automation that's the job that's going to be left. I take it similar track to everything Dan described in marketing.
Dan: And sale I completely agree with you we will 50 years from now have very highly paid salespeople who know how to close a deal but a lot of the marketing part of that happens before a sale is closed will be automated same thing I recruiting.
Rachel: I think the other thing I think I heard from you guys maybe now is call it explicitly is the embracing of technology but data as well because if I think about convincing a candidate yeah you've gotta love data information about your company do you share the candidate but also really using a lot of the metrics in the day that we talked about in kind of a second theme to influence your hiring managers and influence your company about where to invest as you're going to be having particular objectives from a hiring perspective right so that correlation of kind of data and technology and that employment brand that merging of the market the marketing with the customer and then that you know it's heavy influencing negotiating skills in that arena to influence all that seems kind of like the met the the combination to think about for the future.
Dan: I completely agree I should have said is exactly right data and racing data this is where you start right.
Rachel: So that all comes into play too. Fantastic so we have shared our three themes we also do have some time for some Q&A from our audiences that while our audience feel free to start popping in your questions in our chat room and Claire will help us pull out some good ones to be able to take a look at but anything just the top of mind and Chris that you love to share with our audience that you think was you know maybe a key takeaway or an aha you have the last couple weeks being out there with customers and colleagues and prospects and stuff like that anything Chris that you're kind of thinking of and it's totally okay if it's like nope -I'm good.
Chris: No I think you know I just think people are thinking a lot about how like the the whole ecosystem in recruiting kind of kind of plays together. I think one of the things that's interesting I think people are thinking about the end in like theme of recruiting from the time of job gets open and sourcing and you know one of the things I saw at HR Tech is I think people are a lot more mindful I think even people on the provider side have become a lot more mindful in terms of what the future holds and how all these systems that we use are going to have to work together and I think you know TA leaders like naturally think about that I see folks on the provider side really thinking about that and I think there's a lot of cooperation across providers that I haven't necessarily seen in the past I think there's a theme of cooperation because I think there's this theme that data is going to have to flow across all systems and it's becoming more and more rare for one system in the world of HR to own your whole pocketbook from a standpoint of acquiring talent managing talent through the entire lifecycle of the employee.
Dan: I think of the perfect analogy to them is what Google and Apple and other tech companies have done they it hit them back in 2006 and 7 that there's a blog by the way called Mashable there is this term in 2007 here in Silicon Valley saying that's the emergence of the Mashable web and the best example of that would be prior to that everyone built their own mapping technology in their web site and then one day it hit everyone that we should just use Google and integrate with them and so the emergence of cloud applications has made it such that you can an imagine an era where you have a base platform let's say an HRIS system but then you have different apps for your different business functions that integrate with the HRIS system because recruiting is a very different job profession and business process then performance management or then learning management at the same time to your point seeing the data from all of those activities and the patterns that take place across all of those activities is crucial to running a business well so that means then that by definition any player or any vendor in the certainly the HR technology space but it's the same thing in sales and marketing it's the same thing in finance you need to build a platform that is open open architecture open API integrates with all the other applications because that's what customers are going to demand that's what they need that's what they want.
Rachel: Right a new way. We've got some great questions I'd love to field up Heather asks one about “With the increase in automation will this decrease human contact with candidates therefore decrease the candidate experience where is there going to be a balance in this one.” I actually think that's already happened and I hear this a lot from recruiters that the evolution of the profession has gone from being primarily phone based to one that is now you know email and text based.
Rachel: And in the sense of the recruiter connecting with the candidate.
Dan: Correct. Yeah and you know by the way this is common across so many other business professions most marketers now know that the era of when a salesperson can actually spend a lot of time with the prospect is is over people do so much research through Google about what they're going to buy whether it's a lamp or a car or or even food now they do all their research and they would prefer to buy it online and not ever talk to anyone. It makes me wonder sometimes if we're raising a new generation of someone introverts who are who spend less time in human interaction than they did 20-30 years ago. Now there's this new tool started by a former colleague of mine at Yahoo called slack and I have found myself in the early days of Jobvite when I would see people instant message each other and they're only sitting like 5 feet away I would say you know you could just lift your head and talk to them their sitting right there and so I think you know I don't want to be nostalgic for the past but at the same time I think that the richness of interpersonal human communication is so vast that no amount of texting email content is going to replace it so I do think that the salespeople and it's the point you were making earlier Chris the salespeople and therefore the recruiters who actually can in this introverted world of instant messaging breakthrough and build a relationship with candidates are going to be the ones that most succeed and the ones that lean back and try to rely only on email and texting and instant messaging are going to fail.
Rachel: Go ahead Chris.
Chris: I was just going to say Dan I agree with all of that and I think that it's funny because the people have the ability to influence face-to-face and via voice what I see is that if they can transition those skills to some of the new communication mechanisms that are in play they tend to win in texting and they tend to win via slack too it's funny how that works that the really good communicator who can influence find a way to do it through the other tools as well.
Dan: Yeah I agree with that.
Rachel: I think the thing that I would just add here to Heather to your question is that a lot of the candidate experience can actually when you actually talk to company to do you know map out the candidate experience the actual touch points that a lot of those candidates are having with the company or not through a human it literally can be through their own website and how they're projecting the culture as a company it can be connections that you know so a lot the candidate experience isn't always tied it exactly to another human touch it's also all the other media's that are out there all the other messaging you have and so a lot of the best practices in this in this camp really talk about map out what you want your candidate experience to be look at all your different mediums and channels of how people could be knowing this about your brand and really leverage your existing employees and building that employment brand and then that a candidate experience is tied to it too.
Dan: I have to make this last comment. I do think if I leave with one thing you need to know your market so for example video screening there are some candidates who would find it very uncomfortable
Rachel: Right and won't even do it.
Dan: and therefore it's probably not the best way to reach out to them and there are other candidates who would find it offensive that they actually have to drive in or get on the telephone to talk to in person if it'd be easier for them on their own time and time shifting to just answer the questions so you also have to know your market.
Rachel: So we do have one more question if we're game for Allison talks about “What aspects of recruiting should TA leaders be looking at leveraging robotics and or AI.” Chris any thoughts on kind of that one?
Chris: Yeah I mean I think you know to me and Dan mentioned that this is already in play and you know going to you know be in a week off HR Tech you know all you have to do is walk around the floor I have some conversations listen to the content in a show like that I think everything below the live interview line is already in play And whether you're using technology to automate a lot of stuff below the live interview point that includes sourcing that includes you know media buying to Dan's point I think it includes you know the ability to screen so all of those things are in play I think the thing that hasn't been replaced although some you know pure play did you're interviewing vendors might beg to differ I think the only thing that hasn't been like at least experimented with from an automation perspective is the live interview with a hiring manager because there's a connection and there's influence that goes on without whether it's recruiter or the hiring manager. I haven't seen that replaced and I do agree with what I remember of Dan's earlier comments that I don't know that influence will ever be replaced but I think everything below that line is already in play whether you've seen it in your TA practice or not I think you will in the future you'll see automation options for all those things I'll throw it to Dan.
Dan: The conference in Los Angeles six months ago or June or so called the Recode Conference it's probably the biggest conference of tech CEOs.
Chris: I'm jealous Dan I would have loved to been at that one.
Dan: The speakers Walt the CEO of Google the CEO of Microsoft CEO of IBM all spoke and while the IBM CEO is speaking and she was spending a lot of time talking about Watson a person sitting right next to me looked at my name tag took home Jobvite I'd like to introduce myself me hands me his card and I was saying shhh and I'd like to hear what she has to say. We walk out and he tells me that he's just invested in a company can't tell me pull up because the deal isn't closed that is using Watson the algorithm of Watson to build a chatbot for the screening of candidates and he wanted me to both see it and possibly integrated into Jobvite and I asked him this question.
He's a very enthusiastic smart investor and I said you know have you ever experienced that kind of robotic like conversation with the cable company where they ask you to ask a bunch of questions and you're saying you're trying to say yes and and sometimes when I'm on my phone I'm saying yes you know cable is not working I need to speak with a person and you know you're stuck in that kind of audio text hell. I said you better be careful that's not the experience that you launched because job candidates who believe that you don't aren't willing to spend the time to get to know them in person are going to really lash back at that so it better work. And so my point is just like Chris’ is that all the work that leads to the time when you need to actually talk to someone is already being automated greatly you know companies now are building talent pools and automating on the marketing side so I think that's already happening and it's making recruiting departments much more efficient and scalable as a result but be careful when we move into this world of human interaction being automated it all I could say it'd better work.
Rachel: I think we’d all agree with that given all of our experiences we’ve had as consumers in the space too. I just want to thank all you of course we can continue this conversation #JV chat. And we will be getting out not only the recording but the flies out to all of you. But thank you special thanks to Chris and to Dan for your time on this fantastic thanks for Claire for all of our preparation for this and thank you for joining us and we hope to see you in a future webinar with us.
Dan: Cool it was fun. See you Chris.
Chris: All right thanks Dan thanks Rachel.
Rachel: Bye Chris.